Ian Walsh's
2001:A SPACE ODYSSEY
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page under constant construction....
Updated August 2005
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I first went to see the movie 2001 a space odyssey in about 1968, (when it first came out) and have been a fan of the movie ever since. I have built several models of spacecraft from the film including, the Orion Shuttle, and the famous Aurora Moonbus (which I bought about the time that I first saw the film), I always planned to scratch build the Discovery, Aries etc , However I may as well present some of what I have done so far (Mostly a lot of research) towards my Discovery model , which I intend to build in 1/144th scale........ ....Dimensions when given in books etc can differ greatly, for example, the length of Discovery is given at 324, 400ft, 700ft, or anywhere in- between. Mostly I have tried to get back to basics and have lifted dimensions straight from the projection screen, using a technique I developed years ago to lift dimensions of Real spacecraft from photos and pictures......
NEW......August 2005
I have done a lot of research in light of new information and detail that has recently come my way. Past readers of this page will I hope, be pleased to know that the dimensions that were given here on this page (for several years) were not far off the mark....However due to the 'new info.' all the previous sizes are now revised... and more accurate than ever.....
It turns out that the length of the Discovery is nine (9) times the diameter of the pressure sphere, and the Pressure sphere is 6 times the Dia. of the Pod... (These important 'ratio's' were determined by careful measurement of movie stills, and frame grabs of the 'smaller filming model', and by the 'known' size of both the 'small and large' original scale models...
The 15 ft model
(or is it 12 ft*.)
I have a 'Side on' B&W studio photograph of the 'smaller' model .. The picture is of the opposite side of the model to that seen in the movie... The model is mounted on a 'multiple rod support stand ' (to prevent bending of the long thin model )... and there is no sign of any distortion by the camera lens to the model, or to the stand, and even the planking on the studio floor is not 'bent' in any-way due to any discernable 'camera effects, (except the normal 'vanishing point effect' that you would expect). Interestingly this picture proves that there is also NO camera distortion to this same model as it is seen in the movie (other than a slight vanishing point effect mentioned )
The point of all the above is that by dividing the Sphere diameter into the length, you get a ratio of 9.....this can be accurately done by measuring pixels of the picture on the computer screen..... BUT.... You don't actually need to measure any pictures at all to do this... Just divide the sphere diameter into the length, if you know the size of both ......which for the 15 ft model is a 20 inch sphere, (for which I have separate 'evidence'... and so I will 'go' with this size... until I see better proof for otherwise..)
9 X 20 inches is 15 feet.... and the same is true for the 'Big' model (see below)
The 15 ft model would be 1/24 scale (of a 'real' Discovery)
* In fairness there are a also lot of sources that quote a 12 ft length for this model (in which case the CM would be 16 inches dia.) Interestingly Con Pederson one of the original model makers on the movie 'remembers' that the smaller model was "one fifth" the size of the large one....Well Five Times 12ft is 60ft.... ( 60ft ??? read on...) (a 12 ft model would be 1/30th scale (of a real Discovery)
The Command Module
The CM becomes 40 ft dia. The 'driver' for this being the ratio of 6 X the diameter of the Pods (80 inches). But is this true?.......(Well the 2001 book' does say 40 ft Dia.) and ("Nearly 400ft" for Discovery's length)
If so a 15 ft Discovery model mentioned above would have to be 1/24th scale .... eg. 24 X 20" dia. = 40 ft dia. CM. and 24 X 15ft = 360 ft long (full size if real...... ) Scaling the main dish antenna diameter using the same picture, and same pixel technique the 'real size' dish would be 12 ft dia. ( does anyone have any information regarding the full size Dish Set... please mail me if you do)
The Pods
The pods were built Full size (1/1 scale) and so can be considered 'real'... after careful measurements and other things, I have the Pod diameter at 80 inches . The pods (along with the ' 9' ratio mentioned above) are the 'drivers' for all the other ratios.... By careful measurement I have the pod to CM ratio as 1/6th the diameter of the CM (pressure-sphere) ....so if real, the Discovery CM (command module) would be 6 X 80 inches = 40 ft. diameter. The Smaller model pods are scale models of the full size pod.
The 'larger' of the pod models, is often quoted as ~ 13.5 inches in diameter... well at 1/6th scale 6 X 13.5 = 81 inches ... (near enough to my 80")
The Pod Deck
The Pod deck (like the pods themselves) was built full size...Up until now I have taken what I believe to be the correct diameter for the CM (40ft)...and 'made' the interior to fit into it as well as I could.... However...... for the first time thanks to the prompting of a fellow 2001 fan Adam Johnson (USA), I have drawn what is probably the most accurate floor plan of the pod room drawn by anyone (not shown on this site yet)... drawing what I saw, with no view to 'make it anything' other than what I observed and what it was.
It has taken dozens of drawings to get it right... but Everything on it works ...lines of sight along edges.. everything....and the pods at 80 inches dia. fit into it ....more importantly the Pod door aperture sizes have become apparent... they are 11ft 6 inches diameter. But there is a snag... a surprise to me !!!! and maybe to others (or not) .....(More on this lower down see ' Pod deck surprise ' below.).
The 'big' (54ft) studio model
Ok... Everything I have done on this page in the past (and why I have now updated it) has been to accommodate the statements below, which appear 'constantly' in 2001 fandom... That....... QUOTE
"The large model is 54 ft long and has a sphere 6 ft diameter (and is 1/6th scale and has a pod ~13.5 inches diameter"
I have bent the scales and ratios of all the stuff I have done in the past in order to accommodate these sizes I that I took for 'canon' for the large model ... but have had a Eureka moment and decided that its this very information that's wrong (and what to do about it) ....here's why..... 6 ft divided by 54 ft is indeed a ratio of 9 (same as the small Discovery)............and you can 'feed in' any number you like into this formula to get a Discovery proportionally right of any size you want. But at 1/6th Scale to match the pods scale The CM at 6 ft Dia. will give a Sphere of Only 36 ft dia. (and 36ft X 9 ratio is 324 ft long) The diameter for the CM is clearly wrong.......it would be way too small seen against the pod.
The 'Fix'........
Everything... and I mean everything works, if the Big Discovery model were 60 ft long... and not 54 ft... The scale's become consistent...the ratios of length to CM diameter work (see below), the pods are to scale etc. The model would become at 1/6th scale (If real) 360 ft long and have a sphere 40 ft dia. and for the first time becomes consistent with the RATIOS of the 'small ' model. (The pod doors for both models also scale to the full size of 11ft 6" as described above)
Wow factor....
But how about this as a whammy of a consequence , that 'feels' sooooo right......the CM Sphere becomes 80 inches in diameter ........which is the same diameter as the full size Pods !!! Handy for making four glass-fibre sphere's (3 pods and 1 CM) from the same mould... I have pictures of the CM seen clearly being made separately from the main 'body' of the Discovery..... and the length of the body of the Discovery without the D shaped CM attached is...............54 ft long !!!! and the 80 inch diameter sphere measured from the 'front' to the Flat of the Back of the D shape Is near 6 ft!!! ......54ft + 6ft = 60* ft...............Coincidence??? If you worked on the 'body' (in a separate shop to the sphere) would you not still call it a 54 ft model if that's what it was.....perhaps the '54 ft' name stuck !!!!
*actual... doing the math, the front to back of the CM is about 3 inches shorter than 6 ft...therefore the body must be longer than 54 ft by the same amount in order to total exactly 60 ft
Also there is... (as I only just found out) that there are precedents for the large Discovery being quoted as 60 ft longl...... Two, from separate articles dated 1969 (By people who worked on the movie) sent to me by fellow 2001 fan Eliot R Brown (USA) ...
The Pod deck Surprise.
The Big surprise is this.... Having drawn the Pod deck I can say for absolutely sure that the Full size deck will only fit into a sphere that is 60 ft in diameter. (The actual floor of the pod deck having a radius of 26 feet up to the Bay doors)......the Pod bay doors are radialy positioned on the interior set at 1/10 th's of a circle.... and are 11ft 6inches diameter.
The Pod diameters, and the Pod bay door apertures are the only things on a consistent scale with the 40 ft exterior of the Discovery.
The Pod deck will in no way fit into the Interior of the Discovery at the 'correct ' 40ft external size...and... on the outside the pod bay doors are centred on 1/8ths of the sphere... No wonder I that have had to 'fudge' in the past to get the interior to fit.
So it seems to me you can have two separate, but correct models.... one for the outside which is what I think most modelers would want, and 'fudge' the interior to fit...(See below)
Or.... have a model of the Pressure sphere interior on its own, that will contain a accurate scale model of the Pod Deck and Pods and Doors as seen from the inside... And I have to say all the rest of the CM interior too... Centrifuge, cockpit, HAL etc. However the Discovery cannot be scaled up to 540 ft long (9X60ft ) to accommodate a 60 ft Dia. CM .....the Pods and the Bay doors would be proportionally much too small as seen from outside
August 2005
Written in 2003....'The fudge fit interior'
I viewed The Interior of the Discovery room by room ,each room was drawn in detail on its own. For instance, The angle of the ladder in its shaft (relative to the small room next to the pod bay which is itself angled) , each rung on the ladder was counted (there are 14) and the total height was calculated from measuring real ladders ( for the height of the HAL room above the pod room ).I am confident that my measurements of the interior of Discovery are as accurate as can be to fit into 40 ft sphere.....some measurements are more or less ' fixed ' for example the diameter of the centrifuge studio set .... (see page 2 'centrifuge' )
I did several drawings of each room , the trick was then to fit them all inside the pressure sphere in logical order.......Not so easy ......the fact is that according to my initial work the interior is too big for the Discovery ..........so each room was re- worked , a bit trimmed here a bit there. problem was when you are working with such a tight fit , altering one piece means having to re-draw the whole lot....in the end having tried all-ways to get the interior to fit I had to increase the diameter of the pressure sphere ...I reluctantly did this by a (scale) foot at a time (to find the minimum necessary size ),
Ok... so at 44 ft internal diameter, the interior fits....is this a cheat?. I don't know, all I can say is that each room looks right , and the overall effect looks right....adding 4ft to a 1/144 th. scale model amounts to about 3/8 inch.. and after all it is only a make believe craft .....I have since seen other people's attempts to do the same thing but as far as I can tell I have come closest to achieving this .....Below are some photo's of the Discovery interior inside a clear plastic pressure sphere in 1/144th scale. The model is crude, only a mock up made from cardboard and bits... I will present my plans and drawings (and more photos) of the Discovery interior here as soon as I get them scanned.............
I would recommend anyone interested to purchase MGM's 2001: A Space Odyssey on DVD, not only for reference but because it is still even today, a darn good movie.
Please, I would ask anyone who makes use of any of this stuff to at least give me a credit mention, and perhaps an e-mail to let me know. thanks ....Ian
click on below to view pics.
Aurora Moonbus Model
Here are some pictures of my Aurora Moonbus ...It is currently being re-built. I took the model to pieces (very carefully as it is such a valuable item) and stripped all the paint off......It is now being re-painted ,but I still have quite a bit of work to do yet.......
Moonbus1 Moonbus2 Moonbus3 Moonbus4
See these links for more moon bus stuff
PING PONG POD
click on thumbnails to make a pod from a ping pong ball
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